When Preaching Becomes a ‘Hate Crime’
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showlove
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clytemnestra wrote:
TransformingWord wrote:
Oh Cly stop being a cry baby ...you want a girl scout cookie

In fact, the Savior did make a declaration about marriage, albeit in a somewhat different context. Jesus said that “For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife and they twain shall be one flesh. What God has joined together let no man put asunder.”

In Matthew 19, Jesus also made clear that male female marriage is not for everyone.

Some of us are not interested in male female intimacy becasue we are born that way. (That would be my sweetie and I.)

Some are made that way by men. (castration??)

Some choose that way in the service of God. (Priests, nuns?)

I'm content in being one of those Jesus desribed as being born this way, and live out God's plan for me with that realization in mind.

cly


Really???

Are you sure about that Cly??

Uh, Cly, you do realize that whether born that way or made (most homosexuals today are in fact MADE) typically eunuchs did not marry or raise a family of their own?
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showlove
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clytemnestra wrote:
Lucy W. Roberts wrote:
clytemnestra wrote:
Lucy,

Jesus' love already includes members of the LGBT community. Nothing in the gospels says otherwise. I see it in my life every day. Only your prejudice leads you to think God's grace is limited in some way. Open your heart to God's love in full measure and love others the way Jesus taught us.

cly


Not prejudiced...Just delivered by His saving grace, praise God! You?

When you believe that being heterosexual is superior to being homosexual, then you're prejudice against gays.

quod erat demostrandum

Heterosexuality is FAR superior to homosexuality. Yep I am "prejudiced".
What? You thought that I would be afraid of your labels?
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richard.a
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post

Rocket wrote:
We are all sinners saved by Grace, maybe in our lost condition before we met Christ we were'nt "homosexuals", but we were sinners in Gods eyes until we came under conviction, until we repented and believed in the Good News.

As a golfer would say, "hole in one", mate. Indeed we all are. Very good point we may well have overlooked.

The reason I don't like euphemisms is that they always hide the truth of a situation.

For example, I dislike "He pinched that" when what is meant is "He stole that". Does that make sense?

Thank you for your commendation. I don't normally join any forums except technical ones... I'm a beta tester for several alternative (to Microsoft) operating systems on personal computers.

However we get people with their sort of attitude (of having to be right even though they are on someone else's "patch") on IRC (Internet Relay Chat) which is like a real-time version of a forum.

clytemnestra wrote:
We admire parents who have unconditional love for their children.

Does that make you unique? I think not.

clytemnestra wrote:
Are you suggessting God's love is lesser than man's?

No

clytemnestra wrote:
I believe in a God whose love passeth all understanding.

And so you should, but you are incorrectly equating His love for us during this mortal life with his judgement for the next.

clytemnestra wrote:
Sorry you missed the places in the gospels where Jesus points this out.

Did I?

Yagudin wrote:
I don't want to dampen your positivity, but when you get the opportunity to look around, you will see that the two longest threads on this forum are about this subject. My concerns are
- that Christians can be distracted by never-ending discussions on this subject when they can be edified or contribute to discussions on other threads
- two main protagonists only appear to post on this one subject, which shows me that there is an agenda at work

If you re-read the thread you will see that I was correct when I described clytemnestra as having hijacked the thread.

Experience shows that if you don't at least try to explain why their very narrow view isn't the answer, that will usually bolster their prideful thoughts of "having won", and they will waste more time elsewhere and pat themselves on the back.

If they now consider that to be a personal attack, so be it. God's patience is greater than mine - everything about Him is greater.

I look forward to receiving the "victor's crown" at the last day, yes. But not a victor's crown in a forum thread where woolly thinking obscures the point of view of the person making all the accusations. I do feel the time has come for this person to take responsibility for their pig-headed attitude, for I believe the dusting off of sandals is needed in regard to this.

Yagudin wrote:
Amen. The key thing though is that we did repent. We didn't say to God that this is the way we are and there is nothing to repent of.

Yes, and that point has been here all through.

clytemnestra has - on behalf of others of their ilk - killed what could have been a great thread. This also happens in parliament. The Hansard report of the vicious and vitriolic attacks by an elected member, someone like them, against someone in the strangers gallery (an observer unable to respond) when the South Australian parliament ran out of time to debate their 2005 bill is a good example of this.

In conclusion, imho it is a pity that there was a lack of leadership shown in moderating the thread. It called for it from about page 2. This is page 6.

Richard from Adelaide
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Lucy W. Roberts
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clytemnestra wrote:
richard.a wrote:
clytemnestra wrote:
TransformingWord wrote:
Trust that every word has gone to her or it's [sic] heart. The mere fact that she post [sic] is probably the most Word she has received in her or its life.

The proof is in the pudding. Stop fighting and fall to your knees [sic] he is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse you from ALL unrighteousness.

See what I'm talking about, Lucy?

Ummm, with respect you have missed yet another point as I see it.

Gender, traditionally is he or she. Male or female. Or if you are an activist, she and he, female and male. blah blah blah...

Claiming that gays have no gender is about as dumb as it gets.

cly


Transforming Word!!! Hate the sin, not the sinner! We are trying to be edifying to Cly so she can hear...please.



Yes, I see, Cly, that now you are being personally and verbally attacked with this "it" thing. And you didn't retaliate in return...very commendable! You and I both know that we are female, don't we?

As you can see, what everyone is concerned and hyped about is the tragedy that if we don't somehow get through to you that you may be lost forever...and no one wants to see this happen.

We could bow our head and look at our feet and kick at the dust and say, "Awe, shucks, Cly, you are just misguided in your zeal to support this legislation." Or we could simply imply and say "Now, now, little girl...you know God made you a beautiful woman!" Or we could be a little more direct and say that God does not waste His seed of human life and neither should you nor any supposedly "gay" person!

God is very loving towards all that He has made. He commanded us in the garden to "be fruitful" and go forth and multiply. I submit to you that the very reason this sin is abominable to Him is because God doesn't make any junk! He made you the "Only" you there will ever be. And His heart's desire is for "more" of you. Your Father in heaven loves you, Cly, and would never turn you away if you come to Him and say, "Help me out of this..." He will. And just because He shows us great mercy and grace during our life on earth does not imply His approval for our behavior when we are sinning against Him. It does show, however, that He is very patient and longsuffering and willing to wait us out and send us the help we need to truly know Him! And it shows the truth about Him, why Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sin, because the Truth is that He is not willing that anyone of His little ones perish! The soul of every living creature is in His hand. He opens His hand to satisfy the need of every living thing...we don't really want to rebel and bite the hand that has made us and feeds us and gives us every good and perfect thing from Him, do we? He is our Father, and what He says about us is right! His everlasting love and merciful lovingkindness is what calls us to Him, His "right" heart for us! That is who is calling you...the Creator of heaven and earth is calling you to rest on His love for you and to know Him. Amen.

That is where we all are with you. We want you to be a sister in Jesus, being filled by Him and knowing Him and loving Him. And trusting His love to help you through. He is faithful to bring to completion what He started and He will do it. Amen. And blessings. Lucy
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richard.a
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post

Lucy W. Roberts wrote:
clytemnestra wrote:
richard.a wrote:
clytemnestra wrote:
TransformingWord wrote:
Trust that every word has gone to her or it's [sic] heart. The mere fact that she post [sic] is probably the most Word she has received in her or its life.

The proof is in the pudding. Stop fighting and fall to your knees [sic] he is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse you from ALL unrighteousness.

See what I'm talking about, Lucy?

Ummm, with respect you have missed yet another point as I see it.

Gender, traditionally is he or she. Male or female. Or if you are an activist, she and he, female and male. blah blah blah...

Claiming that gays have no gender is about as dumb as it gets.

cly


Transforming Word!!! Hate the sin, not the sinner! We are trying to be edifying to Cly so she can hear...please.



Yes, I see, Cly, that now you are being personally and verbally attacked with this "it" thing. And you didn't retaliate in return...very commendable! You and I both know that we are female, don't we? ---snip---

Yes I agree, and I need to make an apology for not seeing this myself.

The apology is to you, clytemnestra, and I do ask you to please forgive my not realising what was said was hurtful. Certainly there was no intent as such.

Actually, in the illustration I gave of my cat Maximus, I love him dearly, and do think of him as "he", probably because I care for him. Likewise for his 2year-younger friend who also lives with us, known as "Minimus", who I think of as "she". Neither have any reproductive ability, which was my decision to make, not theirs. A necessary decision, too.

I understand, and am sorry.

Sincerely

Richard
Adelaide, South Australia.
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Lucy W. Roberts
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lucy W. Roberts wrote:
clytemnestra wrote:
richard.a wrote:
clytemnestra wrote:
TransformingWord wrote:
Trust that every word has gone to her or it's [sic] heart. The mere fact that she post [sic] is probably the most Word she has received in her or its life.

The proof is in the pudding. Stop fighting and fall to your knees [sic] he is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse you from ALL unrighteousness.

See what I'm talking about, Lucy?

Ummm, with respect you have missed yet another point as I see it.

Gender, traditionally is he or she. Male or female. Or if you are an activist, she and he, female and male. blah blah blah...

Claiming that gays have no gender is about as dumb as it gets.

cly


Transforming Word!!! Hate the sin, not the sinner! We are trying to be edifying to Cly so she can hear...please.



Yes, I see, Cly, that now you are being personally and verbally attacked with this "it" thing. And you didn't retaliate in return...very commendable! You and I both know that we are female, don't we?

As you can see, what everyone is concerned and hyped about is the tragedy that if we don't somehow get through to you that you may be lost forever...and no one wants to see this happen.

We could bow our head and look at our feet and kick at the dust and say, "Awe, shucks, Cly, you are just misguided in your zeal to support this legislation." Or we could simply imply and say "Now, now, little girl...you know God made you a beautiful woman!" Or we could be a little more direct and say that God does not waste His seed of human life and neither should you nor any supposedly "gay" person!

God is very loving towards all that He has made. He commanded us in the garden to "be fruitful" and go forth and multiply. I submit to you that the very reason this sin is abominable to Him is because God doesn't make any junk! He made you the "Only" you there will ever be. And His heart's desire is for "more" of you. Your Father in heaven loves you, Cly, and would never turn you away if you come to Him and say, "Help me out of this..." He will. And just because He shows us great mercy and grace during our life on earth does not imply His approval for our behavior when we are sinning against Him. It does show, however, that He is very patient and longsuffering and willing to wait us out and send us the help we need to truly know Him! And it shows the truth about Him, why Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sin, because the Truth is that He is not willing that anyone of His little ones perish! The soul of every living creature is in His hand. He opens His hand to satisfy the need of every living thing...we don't really want to rebel and bite the hand that has made us and feeds us and gives us every good and perfect thing from Him, do we? He is our Father, and what He says about us is right! His everlasting love and merciful lovingkindness is what calls us to Him, His "right" heart for us! That is who is calling you...the Creator of heaven and earth is calling you to rest on His love for you and to know Him. Amen.

That is where we all are with you. We want you to be a sister in Jesus, being filled by Him and knowing Him and loving Him. And trusting His love to help you through. He is faithful to bring to completion what He started and He will do it. Amen. And blessings. Lucy


Good apology, Richard, but I would like to add one thing...we all need to look back from where we have come realizing that we are "raised" with a set of wounds and hurts that we carry along, knowingly or unknowingly, and that our view of those around us is "shaped" by our past hurts. From these come our "accusations" our "prejudice" our "defensiveness" and our desire to be set free, no matter how deeply buried under these hurts that desire to be free might be. We desire Truth, the Spirit of Truth in the inmost parts, as the Psalmist says. We desire Truth, not gossip, Truth, not lies, Truth, not misinformation. The Word says that the Truth, Jesus, is the desire of nations. And He is The Way, The Truth and The Life and "He whom the Son sets free is free indeed!" Free to Be in Him and with Him and in Truth! Amen.
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TransformingWord
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lucy if thats the case get her saved....call me when it happens. In the meantime I'll get the folks in the world. She knows the truth she just does not to acknowledge it as the truth. People like to be victims of there own circumstances. I was her until somebody told me like it was. You all have been telling her the same thing over and over again. If you really want to do something minister to the gay couple that lives in your neighborhoods or in you family. How about ministering to the person dying of AIDS who believes they are doom to hell. If were going to preach the gospel lets preach it FULL.
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clytemnestra
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

showlove wrote:
clytemnestra wrote:
TransformingWord wrote:
Oh Cly stop being a cry baby ...you want a girl scout cookie

In fact, the Savior did make a declaration about marriage, albeit in a somewhat different context. Jesus said that “For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife and they twain shall be one flesh. What God has joined together let no man put asunder.”

In Matthew 19, Jesus also made clear that male female marriage is not for everyone.

Some of us are not interested in male female intimacy becasue we are born that way. (That would be my sweetie and I.)

Some are made that way by men. (castration??)

Some choose that way in the service of God. (Priests, nuns?)

I'm content in being one of those Jesus desribed as being born this way, and live out God's plan for me with that realization in mind.

cly


Really???

Are you sure about that Cly??

Uh, Cly, you do realize that whether born that way or made (most homosexuals today are in fact MADE) typically eunuchs did not marry or raise a family of their own?

Here's an article about a report commissioned by the Canadian governemnt titled: "Study: Same-sex couples just as good, if not better, at parenting"

If same-sex couples are just as good, if not better, at parenting as opposite-sex couples are, why do you have a problem with our choice in life? You should rejoice with us in this new life, and support us in raising our children in a good Christian home.

cly
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TransformingWord
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IF YOU WERE BORN AN EUNUCH THEN YOUR NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE SEX WITH YOUR SWEETIE. NOW THINK YOURSELF OUT OF THAT BECAUSE EUNUCHS ARE INDIVIDUALS THAT MADE A DECISION OR TRAINED TO BE CHAMBERLAINS TO ROYAL PEOPLE.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source eu·nuch (yōō'nək) Pronunciation Key
n.
A castrated man employed as a harem attendant or as a functionary in certain Asian courts.
A man or boy whose testes are nonfunctioning or have been removed.
Informal An ineffectual, powerless, or unmasculine man.


[Middle English eunuk, from Latin eunūchus, from Greek eunoukhos : eunē, bed + -okhos, keeping (from ekhein, to keep; see segh- in Indo-European roots).]

eu'nuch·ism n.

Word History: The word eunuch does not derive, as one might think, from the operation that produced a eunuch but rather from one of his functions. Eunuch goes back to the Greek word eunoukhos, "a castrated person employed to take charge of the women of a harem and act as chamberlain." The Greek word is derived from eunē, "bed," and ekhein, "to keep." A eunuch, of course, was ideally suited to guard the bedchamber of women.

cham·ber·lain /ˈtʃeɪmbərlɪn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[cheym-ber-lin] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. an official charged with the management of the living quarters of a sovereign or member of the nobility.
2. an official who receives rents and revenues, as of a municipal corporation; treasurer.
3. the high steward or factor of a member of the nobility.
4. a high official of a royal court.

Cly is simply a yapping head that loves the sin. Let her or him be in there sin. Reprobate minds will do what they want you just always have to have the Word of God to break point in your approach. As with dealing with JW's.


Last edited by TransformingWord on Wed May 09, 2007 1:31 am; edited 2 times in total
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clytemnestra
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richard.a wrote:
I just saw your last bit...
Quote:
It took the Southern Baptist Convention 150 years to apologize for promoting discrimination of blacks. I can't wait another 150 years before they apologize for doing the same thing to gays. You call it a "chip on my shoulder." I call it standing up for my rights.

You don't read very clearly what others write.

The Southern Baptists are all people like you and me. Fallible, fallen sinners, who make mistakes.

Give them the courtesy of acknowledging that they made a mistake.

Oh, I do. Godly people were mistaken in promoting prejudices against blacks. We all see that.

I'm just eagerly awaiting the day when these same Godly people acknowledge that they are equally mistaken in promoting prejudices against gays.

However, they're still prejudice against women: "Wives, submit to your husbands," so I'm not holding my breath.

cly
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clytemnestra
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

showlove wrote:
Heterosexuality is FAR superior to homosexuality. Yep I am "prejudiced".
What? You thought that I would be afraid of your labels?

No, but acknowledging our faults is the first step in correcting them.

cly
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richard.a
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post

clytemnestra wrote:

No, but acknowledging our faults is the first step in correcting them.
cly

"Et tu, Brute"

Good morning everybody,

I've decided that I'm wasting my time on this forum, not because of any superiority on my part, but because time is precious (particularly for an old person) when it's not being used well.

No, I have come to the conclusion that clytemnestra will not understand, until the Holy Spirit moves within them, and they listen, then actually recognise and accept that they are rejecting both God and His will.

They appear determined to have this ongoing "Poor Me" pity-party, demanding others are wrong and apologise to them (without a real acknowledgement in return, in many ways like the other activists one sees), and their refusing to be relational to the others in the way Christians ought, yet claiming to be Christian. I see little evidence of what the Authorised Version calls "Charity", and am extremely glad that we have no hand in judging at "the last trump". I think clytemnestra will convict themself at that time, just as each of us will convict ourselves.

There has been anger, annoyance and rudeness displayed by us who do know, and try to follow the Lord Jesus Christ, in our attempting to communicate, and being totally frustrated by this person's ego getting in the way at every move.

I'm still unsure if they are claiming to be a female trapped in a male body, a male trapped in a female body, or just a selfish person demanding to have their own way.

I have met just one genuine one of the first in 72 years, and many, many of the last. Some years ago, I came to the conclusion that the former are very few and far between. That one person was nurtured by a loving and discipled/discipling congregation for some four years, then walked away demanding to do their own thing, which was very sad.

I was given what I believe to be an interesting and useful url the other day:
http://reasonablechristian.blogspot.com/2007/04/transgender-myth.html

My background is from the UK military and prior to that the UK boarding school environment when homosexuality in the 1940s-1950s would and should have been huge had the percentages been what their lobby claims. It isn't. It wasn't. I was exposed to a minute amount, and as with most young people was morbidly interested, yet revolted by the thought.

I have also been pursued at the age of about 10 by a dirty old man who I was able to evade. However that has nothing to do with my understanding what God's will is for and in His creation.

God does not make mistakes. That includes the design of people. They promote that it's a matter of choice. So is their salvation a matter of their choice. I believe we have pandered to clytemnestra and their thoughts far too long and have totally ignored the point of the thread.

I accept that there could be an increase in the percentage of recent years because of pollution with wierd chemicals, but the industrial revolution also did that, so I'm puzzled with regard to the validity of those claims.

I still am concerned that the owners of the forum failed to moderate the thread in order that its original and intended purpose should be restored, and debate on the bill resumed. The only conclusion I can reluctantly draw from that is that the forum owners also have an agenda.
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winnie
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So in the world of editing, revisionist theology, although the Scriptures clearly teach that wives should submit to their husbands, this amounts to prejudice?

This assinine statement reveals how pointless it is to argue with "Christians" who reject the inspiration of all of Scripture.

You're right. Don't hold you're breath.
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VirtuousWoman
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those who don't know, Clytemnstra is a lesbian living in sin with another female. They are raising children together Shocked and consider themselves as "normal" as heterosexuals. Confused

VirtuousWoman

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post

Perhaps.

Or maybe a troll, even. There has been nothing said to disprove either.
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