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anthony
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Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 994
Location: u.k
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 Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Spot on mate!
_________________
Remain a blessing dear ones .tony |
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TransformingWord
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 236
Location: The Ministry Center of New York
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="richard.a"] | Quote: | | Perhaps if you let Jesus' love fill your heart, it will dispell the fear and help you be rid of this obsessive hatred of gays. |
Ummm I think cly might belong to the grouping of people who doesn't
understand that God and His followers actually hate the sin, rather
than the sinner?
VERY on point she or he or it ... I dont know it might be transgender
for all I know. Thinks the church hates it, (I'm using it for now on
dont know if that is a male or female or both). I dont hate her but I
hate the sin with a passion. A sin that held me in bondage since the
age of 6 years old. A sin that shows that there is no hope that you
can't be happy because on the inside your heart cries out for freedom.
What do you think gay prides are all about intentionally to gather
people around for affirmation. A bunch of broke, hurt, rejected and
ostrasized individuals that cant understand why the lust after a person
of the same sex. People in some cases that have been blacksheeped by
there families because they bring embarassment. The church has alot of
blame for this because when young men were dying of AIDS in the early
80's they would condemn. Instead of giving words of hope...you can be
set free, healed and delivered. We have had preachers who have played
the best of both worlds...male and females that have condemned the
homosexual lifestyle they participate to only be exposed ala Ted
Haggard and many more. How much longer will we sit back and allow a
group of broken and hurt people die and go to hell in large numbers
unless we preach to them the reality that Jesus died on the Christ for
them and by his stripes they were healed? We are so caught up in our
mega churches, with our dry sermons, million dollar homes and big
television shows that we forget why Christ saved us...TO GO YE INTO THE
WORLD and PREACH THE GOODNEWS. Christians have allowed the morality of
this country to fall because we want media so we compromise a little
bit of this and that and now the world looking at us like a bunch of
hypocrites. We have so much Jesus yet some christian will be dancing up
in the club tonight with a drink, then falling into morning glory
service as if nothing happened. Judgement comes to the house of God
first we need to wake up and smell the HEBREWS coffee. Everybody is
such a prophet and prophetess apostle and bishop yet they cant even get
the struggling homosexuals in there churches free. Matterfact they wont
even go witness to the sinners. I believe just as with the Church of
Jerusalem persecution will cause this church building mentality to stop
and get this gospel spread. We forget Jesus is coming. It's time to act
like Eccelisia - chosen one called out to govern or as one translation
says to turn the world upside down. |
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clytemnestra
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Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 251
Location: NC
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| anthony wrote: | No one hates you people we just do not think you have the right to rule the planet.  |
"you people"
Your insulting manner of speaking to gays is such a part of you that
you don't even realize when you do it?? Try calling blacks "you people"
and see how far it gets you.
When a person tells malicious lies about gays, and does so over and
over, and suggests gays do things which can cause them great harm, even
leading to their death, then even the most optimistic observer would
have to conclude that there's hate in there somewhere.
Or is driving gays to commit suicide OK with you? |
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TransformingWord
Active Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 236
Location: The Ministry Center of New York
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Oh Cly stop being a cry baby ...you want a girl scout cookie
In fact, the Savior did make a declaration about marriage, albeit
in a somewhat different context. Jesus said that “For this cause shall
a man leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife and they
twain shall be one flesh. What God has joined together let no man put
asunder.”
We usually think of that expression in the context of two people, a
man and a woman, being married and the inappropriateness of someone
trying to separate them. I think it may have a broader meaning in a
doctrinal sense. Marriage of a man and a woman is clear in Biblical
teaching in the Old Testament as well as in the New [Testament]
teaching. Anyone who seeks to put that notion asunder is likewise
running counter to what Jesus Himself said. It’s important to keep in
mind the difference between Jesus’ love and His definition of doctrine,
and the definition of doctrine that has come from apostles and prophets
of the Lord Jesus Christ, both anciently and in modern times.
Last edited by TransformingWord on Sat May 05, 2007 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lucy W. Roberts
Active Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 918
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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Cly,
since you cannot figure it out from my posts or on your own...let me
say it so clearly that you cannot possibly, even with blinders on, miss
it...
It is because of Jesus, His great love, His love in me for you,
that I spend any time at all trying to break through the wall of lies
you have embedded yourself in...it is not hate, but love, that is
calling you to the Living God, Jesus, and all of His Word.
Will you listen to Jesus' voice? He is speaking to you in your
heart and He is calling you to know Him, He is the God of Truth, our
Creator, and His love and His purpose and plan for your life is beyond
whatever you could ask or think...it is not too late to turn and know
Him and His saving and redeeming love for you.
This is not hate...to want you to be saved and healed and delivered, you and your whole household.
Whether you "feel" hated has nothing to do with me...it could be that
'abomination' realization and conviction trying to teach you to hate
the sin that you are in...I did, and Jesus took me out of it! He will
do the same for you if you will but turn to Him and talk to Him about
it.
Thanks, amen...
_________________
If God is for us who can be against us?
Make the Lord your trust and He will do this...He will make your
righteousness shine like the dawn; the justice of your cause like the
noonday sun!
No weapon formed against us shall prosper. |
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richard.a
Active Member
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| TransformingWord wrote: | | In
fact, the Savior did make a declaration about marriage, albeit in a
somewhat different context. Jesus said that “For this cause shall a man
leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife and they twain
shall be one flesh. What God has joined together let no man put
asunder.” |
Okay, if we really have to get down to basics, let us look at what the
"autographs" - the original scrolls written in Greek - actually said.
It is impossible to successfully use a translation of scripture to
counter this stuff - whether it be the one favoured by the Metropolitan
Community Church, whether a 1970s one, or the one published in 1611
which was 80% of Coverdale's written in 1535 (15 something anyway).
Vine in his Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words makes the following comment, and I quote from the copy open in front of me.
| Quote: | 1. GUNE denotes
(1) a woman, married or unmarried (see WOMAN);
(2) a wife, e.g., Matt. 1:20; 1 Cor. 7:3,4; in 1Tim.3:11, RV,
"women" the reference may be to the wives of deacons, as the AV takes
it.
2. GUNAIKEREIOS, an adjective denoting womanly, female, is used as a noun in 1Pet.3:7 AV "wife", RV "woman".
Note:In John 19:25 the article stands idiomatically (my emphasis) for "the wife of in Matt. 1:6, the article is rendered "her that had been the wife (of)" |
| TransformingWord wrote: |
We usually think of that expression in the context of two people, a
man and a woman, being married and the inappropriateness of someone
trying to separate them. |
How else can it be understood if we read the common usage of the Greek word used?
| TransformingWord wrote: | | I think it may have a broader meaning in a doctrinal sense. |
I don't see how it can be valid if the doctrine of the people concerned contradicts scripture
| TransformingWord wrote: | | Marriage of a man and a woman is clear in Biblical teaching in the Old Testament as well as in the New [Testament] teaching. |
Exactly
| TransformingWord wrote: | | Anyone who seeks to put that notion asunder is likewise running counter to what Jesus Himself said. |
Yes!
| TransformingWord wrote: | | It’s
important to keep in mind the difference between Jesus’ love and His
definition of doctrine, and the definition of doctrine that has come
from apostles and prophets of the Lord Jesus Christ, both anciently and
in modern times. |
There is a scripture which we can read in the New Testament which talks
about changing doctrines with the wind... perhaps resultant upon
listing to teachers, having itching ears. That is a real bag of mixed
metaphors  
Seriously folks, it is quite ridiculous to try and dissuade people who choose to not listen to sound doctrine,
preferring all these "new" ideas - which are not new at all, actually.
They go back to Babylon, to Egypt before that, to the time of Lot, and
indubitably the period immediately before the flood in Noah's time.
Oh, anyone remember Bill Cosby's famous three monlogues, sitting on
a stool centre stage, doing an approximation of the conversation Noah
had with "The Lord"? I made an mp3 of them, not sure where I uploaded
it, lol
Edit
| Quote: | Here is the url of Noah and the Lord as created from the LP (or what-have-you) that it was originally on. There are three mp3's.
Hope you enjoy it |
/Edit
I feel rather sorry for Lot's wife, because she epitomises modern
people who think they have to "understand" the reason why people do bad
stuff, so they can help them, many by participating in the same stuff.
We aren't helping what Jesus taught by arguments like this. and one
of the reddest herrings is to say that "The Church" did bad things in
the past.
Of course it did! It is comprised of fallen decadent sinners like you
and me, whose only link to redemption and heaven is Christ's blood shed
for them.
Shed for you, and me, and every other sinner upon the face of the
planet who is prepared to hear his message, understand who he was and
why he died, and grasp the free gift offered with both hands and say
"thanks, I'll change my ways".
Whatever those ways are. God is no respector of persons. All sins are equally obnoxious to him. And he defines sin, not us... a very simple understanding being it is allowing self to stand between a relationship between him and me.
This is no place to post a sermon; I've already probably said too
much, and I'm just a lay person who loves the Lord for what he did for
me.
Amen
_________________
Have you noticed editing is always needed for the inevitable typos that weren't there when you hit the "post" button?
#Christian-Chat on irc.undernet.org
Last edited by richard.a on Wed May 09, 2007 2:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TransformingWord
Active Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 236
Location: The Ministry Center of New York
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 7:21 am Post subject: |
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No
need to dissaude but to us as paul I become a gentile to reach the
gentiles a jew to reach the jews a pagan to reach the pagans. So since
it wanted to be intelletual I left out scriptural reference. It has
lacked in presenting scripture to back up it's unstable beliefs
according to the open and affirming church doctrines of devils. The
truth of the matter is Cly is just a mouth with no proof to present
evidence of truth. When in sin and especially when you like the sin you
will do what it takes to affirm the sin. This will actually be my last
time talking about this subject the spring is here and its time to do
the work of the evangelist. But I end my part in this forum with the
words the Holy Spirit through Paul. "Furthermore, since they did not
think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over
to a depraved mind, to do what out not to be done" Romans 1:26
"Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such
things deserve death they not only continue to do these very things but
also approve of those who practice" Romans 1:32
May the Lord open the hearts and minds of those who seek him through his transforming word.
Amen. |
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richard.a
Active Member
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 8:04 am Post subject: |
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amen also;
I felt we were getting nowhere, which is why I resorted to changing
from intellectual to scripture... probably should not because it
prolongued the debate, and I should have known it would.
Debate is less than healthy quite often, if the other side doesn't wish
to listen. That's how we look at things in my IRC channel, anyway
Glad to have made your acquaintance too, I've also got things to do
Good night from Australia, good morning to you. May the Lord keep you safe in His work.
Sincerely,
Richard
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anthony
Active Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 994
Location: u.k
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 8:25 am Post subject: |
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"you people", was not meant to offend,i apologise for any offense given.
The substance of my remark remains nontheless.Cheerio.
_________________
Remain a blessing dear ones .tony |
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Bro Paul
New Member
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Hello everybody,
I believe the new covenant tells us that we shouldn't be surprised -
either at this that's going on in the world, or with what's going on in
the "church."
I believe we are so self-centered that we are sometimes blind to
what our brothers and sisters are enduring in the rest of the world.
Maybe the "church" could use a little persecution here in America.
_________________
Warning: The Message version has earned a nickname as the homosexual's bible. Compare
Rom. 1:27; 1 Cor. 6:9; 1 Tim. 1:10, with the KJV, NASB,AMP, and
NIV. The sin of homosexuality has been removed from those verses. |
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maz
1,000 Posts Club
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 1425
Location: U.K.
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Hi Bro. Paul welcome...good post ..
I totally agree, our brothers and sisters who are not in the West could show us a good example - in many things.
yes we shouldn't be surprised
at this.. and become complainers, just focused on the negative, and
becoming condemning of those who are still without the Saviour...what
do we expect from them?
Do we expect them to act like Christians if they're not Christians?
Of course the 'world' is not going to want to promote what we think is right...
we need to concentrate on the answers to this. Not the problem.
It is we in the Church who need to change first, and get to united prayer more.
Did you used to post on the old Charisma forum as that name, Bro. Paul, rings a bell?
_________________
Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore.
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clytemnestra
Active Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 251
Location: NC
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| anthony wrote: | "you people", was not meant to offend,i apologise for any offense given.
The substance of my remark remains nontheless.Cheerio. |
Thanks. I have no interest in taking over the planet. However, I
would have my relationship to my sweetie and our children recognized as
a meaningful one. From the recent Oregon legislation adpoting Civil
Unions:
| Quote: | (3)
Many gay and lesbian Oregonians have formed lasting, committed, caring
and faithful relationships with individuals of the same sex, despite
long-standing social and economic discrimination. These couples live
together, participate in their communities together and often raise
children and care for family members together, just as do couples who
are married under Oregon law. Without the ability to obtain some form
of legal status for their relationships, same-sex couples face numerous
obstacles and hardships in attempting to secure rights, benefits and
responsibilities for themselves and their children. Many of the rights,
benefits and responsibilities that the families of married couples take
for granted cannot be obtained in any way other than through state
recognition of committed same-sex partnerships.
(4) This state has a strong interest in promoting stable and
lasting families, including the families of same-sex couples and their
children. All Oregon families should be provided with the opportunity
to obtain necessary legal protections and status and the ability to
achieve their fullest potential.
(5) Sections 1 to 9 of this 2007 Act are intended to better align
Oregon law with the values embodied in the Constitution and public
policy of this state, and to further the state's interest in the
promotion of stable and lasting families, by extending benefits,
protections and responsibilities to committed same-sex partners and
their children that are comparable to those provided to married
individuals and their children by the laws of this state.
(6) The establishment of a civil union system will provide legal
recognition to same-sex relationships, thereby ensuring more equal
treatment of gays and lesbians and their families under Oregon law. |
This is a clear statement that the state has an interest in promoting stable and lasting families including the families of same-sex couples and their children. That's what I'd call a "pro-family" policy.
I'll be glad when NC recognizes our family's contribution to our church
and community and installs this kind of "pro-family" legislation here
as well.
cly |
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clytemnestra
Active Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 251
Location: NC
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| TransformingWord wrote: | Oh Cly stop being a cry baby ...you want a girl scout cookie
In fact, the Savior did make a declaration about marriage, albeit
in a somewhat different context. Jesus said that “For this cause shall
a man leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife and they
twain shall be one flesh. What God has joined together let no man put
asunder.”
|
In Matthew 19, Jesus also made clear that male female marriage is not for everyone.
Some of us are not interested in male female intimacy becasue we are born that way. (That would be my sweetie and I.)
Some are made that way by men. (castration??)
Some choose that way in the service of God. (Priests, nuns?)
I'm content in being one of those Jesus desribed as being born this
way, and live out God's plan for me with that realization in mind.
cly |
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clytemnestra
Active Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 251
Location: NC
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Lucy,
Jesus' love already includes members of the LGBT community. Nothing
in the gospels says otherwise. I see it in my life every day. Only your
prejudice leads you to think God's grace is limited in some way. Open
your heart to God's love in full measure and love others the way Jesus
taught us.
cly |
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clytemnestra
Active Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 251
Location: NC
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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richard.a,
Treating members of the LGBT community with kindness and
understanding is not a "new doctrine." It's just following the example
Jesus set for us in the gospels.
cly |
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