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Lucy W. Roberts
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Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 918
Location: Houston, Texas
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 Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| anthony wrote: | "you people", was not meant to offend,i apologise for any offense given.
The substance of my remark remains nontheless.Cheerio. |
The fact that she reacts to this shows she is under conviction! If not
directly by Holy Spirit of Truth, then at indirectly by people who do
recognize this for the perversion it is. Having to overcome quite
natural repulsion at this behavior is daily life in this 'lifestyle' so
they feel hated, of course, so why do they continue?
I say it is because they have not been restored to the truth about
themselves. And because they do not have emotional 'strength' in the
other direction. Until they see Jesus, His love for them, they can in
no way realize His saving grace to move them out of the pit they are in.
_________________
If God is for us who can be against us?
Make the Lord your trust and He will do this...He will make your
righteousness shine like the dawn; the justice of your cause like the
noonday sun!
No weapon formed against us shall prosper. |
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Lucy W. Roberts
Active Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 918
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| clytemnestra wrote: | Lucy,
Jesus' love already includes members of the LGBT community. Nothing
in the gospels says otherwise. I see it in my life every day. Only your
prejudice leads you to think God's grace is limited in some way. Open
your heart to God's love in full measure and love others the way Jesus
taught us.
cly |
Not prejudiced...Just delivered by His saving grace, praise God! You?
_________________
If God is for us who can be against us?
Make the Lord your trust and He will do this...He will make your
righteousness shine like the dawn; the justice of your cause like the
noonday sun!
No weapon formed against us shall prosper. |
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TransformingWord
Active Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 236
Location: The Ministry Center of New York
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Trust
that every word has gone to her or it's heart. The mere fact that she
post is probably the most Word she has received in her or its life.
The proof is in the pudding. Stop fighting and fall to your knees he is
faithful and just to forgive and cleanse you from ALL unrighteousness. |
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richard.a
Active Member
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| clytemnestra wrote: | richard.a,
Treating members of the LGBT community with kindness and understanding
is not a "new doctrine." It's just following the example Jesus set for
us in the gospels. |
I see you are still hiding behind euphemisms.
I went to check out in your posts to other threads on this forum, all
of which appear to demonstrate what looks to me like the same very
large chip on your shoulder.
You have actually hijacked this thread, in favour of a very small
amount of the content of the bill which looks like you and your sweetie
will gain something tangible, at the expense of others' freedoms.
Kindly look at the first and second sections of identifying who is vilifying who, please.
| Quote: | SEC. 6←→. PROHIBITION OF CERTAIN HATE CRIME ACTS.
(a) In General- Chapter 13 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:
`Sec. 249. Hate crime acts
`(a) In General-
`(1) OFFENSES INVOLVING ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED RACE, COLOR, RELIGION,
OR NATIONAL ORIGIN- Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law,
willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of
fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to
cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived
race, color, religion, or national origin of any person-- |
and
| Quote: | (2)
OFFENSES INVOLVING ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED RELIGION, NATIONAL ORIGIN,
GENDER, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, GENDER IDENTITY, OR DISABILITY-
`(A) IN GENERAL- Whoever, whether or not acting under color of
law, in any circumstance described in subparagraph (B), willfully
causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a
firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily
injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived religion,
national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or
disability of any person-- |
It occurs to me that you might just want to big-note yourself in the
activity in which you are so vehemently and "in-your-face" supporting,
while denying anyone else the opportunity to express their view without
your approving of what they say. Is that not attempted control? Control
I'm sure is something you disapprove of, because you claim it has been
exercised against you, personally.
Has it occurred to you that in your activity in this forum thread,
you might actually be placing your freedom in peril in the future, from
action being taken against your forceful nature stating we are all
wrong and thereby inciting others of your persuasion to make threats
against us?
I suspect that will be next on Big Brother's agenda in his
manipulation of people who can be converted (I use that word quite
advisedly) to discredit others. You know once a bill such as this is
enacted, if the sponsors find they are unable to do quite all they
want, it can be altered by regulation fairly easily, with the insertion
of a word or two here and there to "clarify" the issues the sponsors
wanted to ensure would happen.
I am genuinely sorry for your naiivity, cly. You actually sound
quite intelligent, and seem to have an excellent way with words, and
yet you appear to have no concern over the ongoing political
manipulation of the populace (all over the world) through legislation
that looks like what is needed, yet which has an even wider agenda than
you dream of.
Why pass a new act when sections of the existing legislation have
been competent in dealing with such situations, unless there is another
motive?
_________________
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Lucy W. Roberts
Active Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 918
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Great post, Richard a.
_________________
If God is for us who can be against us?
Make the Lord your trust and He will do this...He will make your
righteousness shine like the dawn; the justice of your cause like the
noonday sun!
No weapon formed against us shall prosper. |
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richard.a
Active Member
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:27 am Post subject: |
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Lucy, thank you, much appreciated.
| clytemnestra wrote: | Lucy,
Jesus' love already includes members of the LGBT community. Nothing
in the gospels says otherwise. I see it in my life every day. Only your
prejudice leads you to think God's grace is limited in some way.
---snip--- |
If I may add a smidgeon to your reply to clytemnestra, I would like to
add a little about God's Grace which might be helpful to cly, and
others who may think the same way as them...
1. It is God's grace,
therefore He is entitled to put what conditions on it that He chooses,
whether or not any of us have any opinion on that fact.
2. God Himself, through Jesus Himself, says in several places that there are conditions on it
- or at least the working-out of it in practical terms, in the next
life. Possibly the best place to see this emphasised is in the chapters
2 and 3 of the Apocalypse of John, aka The Revelation, because being
all in one spot, it is harder to overlook what it actually says. I
quote from the New King James translation...
| Quote: | 2:3 "and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name's sake and have not become weary.
2:4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.
2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do
the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your
lampstand from its place; unless you repent.
2:6 But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the
churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of
life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God." |
Can we note that neither the
Ephesians nor God Himself hated Nicolaitans? God and the Ephesians
hated the activities, the deeds, of the Nicolaitans.
| Quote: | 2:10b "Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the
churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."
2:16 "Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
2:17 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the
churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to
eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name
written which no one knows except him who receives it."
2:25 "But hold fast what you have till I come.
2:26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations;
2:27 He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to
pieces like the potter's vessels'; as I also have received from My
Father;
2:28 and I will give him the morning star.
2:29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
3:4 "You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their
garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.
3:5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I
will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess
his name before My Father and before His angels.
3:6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
3:10 "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will
keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world,
to test those who dwell on the earth.
3:11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.
3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My
God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of
My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which
comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new
name.
3:13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
3:19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.
3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My
voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and
he with Me.
3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My
throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
3:22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." |
I would suggest that it isn't prejudice which creates our line of
thinking, but rather a belief that scripture actually means what it
says.
Would you ignore the instructions in the Owner's/Driver's handbook
of a Volvo, or Mercedes-Benz, or Rolls-Royce, which tells you when you
should change the oil? I would be very reluctant to do that, if I could
even afford one of those cars.
Perhaps more to the point, let us look at Boeing 747-400B's...
Would you be prepared to travel with a Flight Crew that ignored any
aspect of the pre-flight checks?
As an aside, I learned to be a military pilot in the 1950s, and my signature on the Form 700
to say I had completed all pre-flight checks prior to take-off was
taken very seriously by me, my instructor, the Chief Flying Instructor,
the Chief of Maintenance, and ultimately the Air Ministry, the
government department responsible for the Royal Air Force.
Is there not a comparison which can be drawn here? Or is it just a fact of modern times that Obedience and Discipline are words which are no longer "in" things?
You know, scripture does not say that Christ, or God, is so in love
with us that He will choose us to spend eternity with Him, if we have
already made the conscious decision not to do so. If we reject his
instructions, we are saying, in effect, "Thanks, but no, I will do it
my way".
That isn't God's way.
God is prepared to accept each of us, with all our warts, pimples, and
nasty traits, if he can see an honest attempt by us to repent, to
execute a 180-degree turn, an "about turn" in Commonwealth military
jargon, or an "about face" in US military jargon.
At that point, He will step in and help us. I have experienced
that. cly, we are not saying you are unique in being a sinner.
Everybody is. Without exception.
I suspect God isn't much into helping bleating, whingeing people though. Just my thought, based on observation.
Take care, cly, God - and we here - do sincerely care about you.
Richard
_________________
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clytemnestra
Active Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 251
Location: NC
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| Lucy W. Roberts wrote: | | clytemnestra wrote: | Lucy,
Jesus' love already includes members of the LGBT community. Nothing
in the gospels says otherwise. I see it in my life every day. Only your
prejudice leads you to think God's grace is limited in some way. Open
your heart to God's love in full measure and love others the way Jesus
taught us.
cly |
Not prejudiced...Just delivered by His saving grace, praise God! You? |
When you believe that being heterosexual is superior to being homosexual, then you're prejudice against gays.
quod erat demostrandum |
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clytemnestra
Active Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 251
Location: NC
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| TransformingWord wrote: | Trust that every word has gone to her or it's [sic] heart. The mere fact that she post [sic] is probably the most Word she has received in her or its life.
The proof is in the pudding. Stop fighting and fall to your knees
[sic] he is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse you from ALL
unrighteousness. |
See what I'm talking about, Lucy? |
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clytemnestra
Active Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 251
Location: NC
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| richard.a wrote: | | clytemnestra wrote: | richard.a,
Treating members of the LGBT community with kindness and understanding
is not a "new doctrine." It's just following the example Jesus set for
us in the gospels. |
I see you are still hiding behind euphemisms.
I went to check out in your posts to other threads on this forum, all
of which appear to demonstrate what looks to me like the same very
large chip on your shoulder.
You have actually hijacked this thread, in favour of a very small
amount of the content of the bill which looks like you and your sweetie
will gain something tangible, at the expense of others' freedoms.
Kindly look at the first and second sections of identifying who is vilifying who, please.
| Quote: | SEC. 6←→. PROHIBITION OF CERTAIN HATE CRIME ACTS.
(a) In General- Chapter 13 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:
`Sec. 249. Hate crime acts
`(a) In General-
`(1) OFFENSES INVOLVING ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED RACE, COLOR, RELIGION,
OR NATIONAL ORIGIN- Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law,
willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of
fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to
cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived
race, color, religion, or national origin of any person-- |
and
| Quote: | (2)
OFFENSES INVOLVING ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED RELIGION, NATIONAL ORIGIN,
GENDER, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, GENDER IDENTITY, OR DISABILITY-
`(A) IN GENERAL- Whoever, whether or not acting under color of
law, in any circumstance described in subparagraph (B), willfully
causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a
firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily
injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived religion,
national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or
disability of any person-- |
It occurs to me that you might just want to big-note yourself in the
activity in which you are so vehemently and "in-your-face" supporting,
while denying anyone else the opportunity to express their view without
your approving of what they say. Is that not attempted control? Control
I'm sure is something you disapprove of, because you claim it has been
exercised against you, personally.
Has it occurred to you that in your activity in this forum thread,
you might actually be placing your freedom in peril in the future, from
action being taken against your forceful nature stating we are all
wrong and thereby inciting others of your persuasion to make threats
against us?
I suspect that will be next on Big Brother's agenda in his
manipulation of people who can be converted (I use that word quite
advisedly) to discredit others. You know once a bill such as this is
enacted, if the sponsors find they are unable to do quite all they
want, it can be altered by regulation fairly easily, with the insertion
of a word or two here and there to "clarify" the issues the sponsors
wanted to ensure would happen.
I am genuinely sorry for your naiivity, cly. You actually sound
quite intelligent, and seem to have an excellent way with words, and
yet you appear to have no concern over the ongoing political
manipulation of the populace (all over the world) through legislation
that looks like what is needed, yet which has an even wider agenda than
you dream of.
Why pass a new act when sections of the existing legislation have
been competent in dealing with such situations, unless there is another
motive? |
The bill adds sexual orientation, gender identity and disability to the
1968 "Hate Crimes" legislation which already covers religion, national
origin and gender.
As you have noted, the crime has to involve willful bodily injury,
or the serious attempt to do bodily injury. So the idea that a preacher
might be pulled from the pulpit for saying something about gays, is
hyperbole at it's worst. I called it flim-flammery. What would you call
it?
I do agree that this bill does "send the message" that promoting
hatred of gays is no better than promoting hatred of blacks, but we
should all know that already, shouldn't we?
It took the Southern Baptist Convention 150 years to apologize for
promoting discrimination of blacks. I can't wait another 150 years
before they apologize for doing the same thing to gays. You call it a
"chip on my shoulder." I call it standing up for my rights.
If your grand children were discriminated against for no valid
reason, wouldn't you be upset? What parent doesn't want the best for
their children. All I want is for my children to have the same rights
and protections under the law as the children who live in the house
next door. I'm perfectly willing to take it from there.
Until that happens, we're not going away.
cly |
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TransformingWord
Active Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 236
Location: The Ministry Center of New York
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Hate
Crimes against God...your arms are too short. You better be glad he is
using men to minister to you because had it been the days of Abraham
you would not have the audacity to speak out against him going after
the strange flesh you lust for. And you are an IT. |
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richard.a
Active Member
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Disability most certainly is already covered, because I've seen some of the legislation.
Not being American I can't vouch for the other two although it would be
a fair guess to suggest that more general definitions already exist
under "equal opportunity" legislation in place.
I think it highly unlikely that Australia would be ahead of the
militant equal rights people dating from well before Martin Luther King
(who by the way was a Christian) and ERA activist Anita Bryant (who
thought she was).
I've noticed that the more balanced equal rights legislation has had as
sponsors God-fearing people; the unbalanced ones appear to have been
pushed by unbelievers and liberal Christians (who pick and choose their
own smorgasbord of doctrine).
Just a point; it is generally considered poor netiquette to re-post
an entire post as a quote, and is quite meaningless for the reader. I
assume that was your point you were making in my response in the
previous paragraph.
One would normally break such a quote up into small concise paragraphs for response.
So you suffer from an unimaginative mind at this point; I find that odd. A moment of amnesia as well, perhaps?.
Okay, what about plants, listening in the congregation, who make
waves and nasty noises and raise their fists and generally "carry on
like a pork chop in a synagogue" while the pastor is speaking, to
provide evidence to the thought police outside waiting for enough
fracas to make an arrest?
In case anyone thinks I'm pillorying Jews, I'm not. It is an Australian
saying, which imho describes rather well an uproar for what most would
not see as a real reason.
Jews who I know don't take offence at it. It isn't vilification, except
in the State of Victoria where anybody - not necessarily a Jew - who
doesn't actually need to hear me say it, can take offence and demand
the Commissioner for equal opportunity haul me before the tribunal.
Far-fetched? No, go read the act whose url I posted on page 1 of this
thread. Then go read the journalists comments about the outrageous way
three (I think) plants in the pastors' seminar about Islam who were
from the Islamic Society, and then read one of the pdfs on the seminar
content in confirmation.
No, cly, these things do happen. And can happen, mate. And will
happen if this legislation is passed by the US Senate. True the wording
isn't quite the same. But enterprising folks with legal minds will
always find a way 
Wake up, and come into the 21st Century, please, cly.
Edit
I just saw your last bit...
| Quote: | | It
took the Southern Baptist Convention 150 years to apologize for
promoting discrimination of blacks. I can't wait another 150 years
before they apologize for doing the same thing to gays. You call it a
"chip on my shoulder." I call it standing up for my rights. |
You don't read very clearly what others write.
The Southern Baptists are all people like you and me. Fallible, fallen sinners, who make mistakes.
Give them the courtesy of acknowledging that they made a mistake.
Apologies... hmmm... these are often demanded by activists so that then a legal precedent is there to claim financial damages.
And rights. What rights do you have before Almighty God?
The same as me. None. You and I both depend totally on His grace, mate.
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TransformingWord
Active Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 236
Location: The Ministry Center of New York
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:38 am Post subject: |
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We
can not compare the gay movement to the civil rights movement. How can
you compare the sexually impaired with an oppressed race? Thats like
apples and oranges they do not compare. Homosexuals were not on a
plantation picking cotton for the straight world. Nor were homosexuals
boated from Africa to another world then treated like second class
citizens after they were freed.
You have the right to vote....regardless of your sexuality
You have the right to own a home
You have the right to build a business
You have the right to throw you sexuality in people's face
You have the right to even design or twist religion to support your sexuality.
You have the right to become one in flesh through abomination.
But if you knew you were right you would not have to fight for what
you deem is right. I hope gay marriages never get passed in this
country because it would not be a marriage but smack in God's face on
his purpose for man and woman as ONE.
As for freedom of speech and bashing you turn on gay television
stations and watch homosexuals bash on straight people calling us
breeders (since when are we animals, it took straights to make you). So
would that not make you an offspring? |
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richard.a
Active Member
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| clytemnestra wrote: | | TransformingWord wrote: | Trust that every word has gone to her or it's [sic] heart. The mere fact that she post [sic] is probably the most Word she has received in her or its life.
The proof is in the pudding. Stop fighting and fall to your knees [sic]
he is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse you from ALL
unrighteousness. |
See what I'm talking about, Lucy? |
Ummm, with respect you have missed yet another point as I see it.
Gender, traditionally is he or she. Male or female. Or if you are an activist, she and he, female and male.
You have chosen to not identify yourself, which is your prerogative,
which is fine, it is your "right" after all, and you are very well
versed in rights.
When one has a domestic animal, or a farm animal, that is neutered, then it becomes an it.
I have an absolutely gorgeous cat, called Mr. Maximus Pussimus.
Maximus is, to coin a phrase "Daddy's little boy" although he is no
longer little, and was only technically a boy for 6 weeks after we
collected him from the refuge. Maximus is an "it" since then.
You may visit Maximus at http://maximuspussimus.homeip.net
He is genuinely an it, like the only trans-gender person I've ever
met is. And yes, the fellowship that person was in encouraged
him/her/whatever until finally they decided to do things the way of the
world, and they chose to leave us.
Things you said suggest to me that that could well be your status.
None of us have pryed about that; it is your privacy and yes, we all
respected it.
So please back off and stop finding fault with everything. Although
I do notice you haven't addressed anything at the scriptures I've
quoted.
I wonder if this is because they are not the ones you've been primed by your friends on how to answer?
And yes, I still do, as do others on this forum, pray for you in the
way we would expect others to pray for us, in support of trying to live
a Godly life.
Just because we don't agree does not need make us enemies. Rule number one in training chat-room moderators.
Please if you feel threatened by those scriptures, let us discuss
them. They are not new. God is unchangeable. He is the same yesterday,
as He is today, as He will be tomorrow.
And there will be a tomorrow; let us hope that our tomorrow will be at
the same time, the First Resurrection, rather than the Second, which my
thoughts are will be a thousand years later, a resurrection to total
and utter disaster with no possibility to change the mind.
God bless you cly, (I mean it)
Richard
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Last edited by richard.a on Mon May 07, 2007 8:58 am; edited 2 times in total |
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richard.a
Active Member
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: |
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TransformingWord, Very good points, and I've never really thought of myself as a "straight" until this moment, but yes.
It actually takes two straights to produce a homosexual, unless they decide to become breeders for a while.
Richard
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Lucy W. Roberts
Active Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 918
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:57 am Post subject: |
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To Cly
You are using a "natural" argument against a spiritual principle, and just like comparing apples to oranges this won't work...
The Truth is the Truth.
Doing right in God's eyes is not necessarily "superior" although I
know in your convicted state it appears this way. Doing right is
obedient and therefore blessed by God's favor. Being disobedient is not
blessed by God's favor hence you have this feeling hated and rejected
and inferior. God cannot bless what He has called an abomination, and
your Heavenly Father will never do that.
It's not "superior"...it's the Truth of the Living God, your Father and
Creator that will never pass away. Heaven and Earth will pass away, but
His Word will never pass away. The Living Word...I would rather be
found in Him and never pass away. You?
_________________
If God is for us who can be against us?
Make the Lord your trust and He will do this...He will make your
righteousness shine like the dawn; the justice of your cause like the
noonday sun!
No weapon formed against us shall prosper. |
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