When Preaching Becomes a ‘Hate Crime’

[richard.a]

You are both so right, spot on.

Lucy that scripture

[Yagudin]

[Lucy W. Roberts]

[clytemnestra]

I'm glad to see increasing support from church leaders in gay civil rights issues. A group of over 300 from various states arrived in DC to lobby in favor of adding gays to the hate crimes legislation, for example.

It was when the abolitionist churches made slavery a moral issue, not just an economic one, that slavery was ended in our country.

With more main line churches supporting equal rights for their gay church members, the day when gays and their families will no longer be treated like second class citizens is on the way.

The number of Christians and Muslims who promote anti-gay policies are no longer in the majority in our country. I see even Rev Jerry Falwell agrees (with 80% of the public) that gays should not be discriminated against in housing and employment.

Equal rights for gays are on the way. It's just a matter of time.

cly

[Lucy W. Roberts]

richard.a and Yagudin...y'all are blessing me so good! thank you, sirs.

CLy...Repenting and getting saved has absolutely NOTHING to do with being treated like second class citizens. It has everything to do with gaining citizenship in heaven forever!

Get saved, ask Jesus to save you, and He will, and you will want nothing to do with darkness! Amen?
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If God is for us who can be against us?
Make the Lord your trust and He will do this...He will make your righteousness shine like the dawn; the justice of your cause like the noonday sun!
No weapon formed against us shall prosper.

[richard.a]

Thank you Lucy, appreciated.

Cly, I wonder how you would feel being treated like a second class citizen purely because you are female?

And then, because you are behaving unlawfully in the views of the Islamic Allah, in say Indonesia, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, or some of the African countries...

Demonstrating your current attitude towards those about to stone you, slit your throat, or less likely having a quick bullet put through your heart or head wouldn't do you much good either my dear.

Please wake up to what those around are trying to instil into your not exactly fast receptive "little grey cells". (A quote from Agatha Christie's "Hercule Poirott, detective par excellence).

The world is a real place. We are faced with real problems that need fixing. Bleating about perceived injustices when real problems are occurring all around is rather pointless imho. Wasting others time without listening doesn't usually win many friends, and your effort is then in vain as people with less patience than I won't bother reading it.

Perhaps one could even say "Please grow up" - as you are still slurping quite well on what the apostle calls "milk" and missing out of munching the real stuff (meat) that guarantees the next life to be more pleasant than where (sadly) most are headed because of being wilful

Staying with the milk is seen as a danger, not to receiving salvation, but to continuing with it, because contrary to what many folk think, it is an ongoing process, which if you read scripture non-selectively, you discover quite early on. If you doubt this, an alternative understanding of what Jesus said to John seven times about "overcomers" would be interesting to hear.

There is time yet, Cly. But don't hold your breath. When the wind changes, it will be too late Something my dear old mum used to say many, many years ago, about a sullen scowl on my face

In the mean time, just thank Almighty God that you were privileged to be born into and then reside in a relatively friendly western culture.

"All things are relative.
Some are more relative than others."
(Apologies, plagiarised and adapted from George Orwell's "Animal Farm")

Have you read it, Cly? If not, it might be useful, for it throws a more practical view on mankind's struggles than you appear to see.

Richard
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[TransformingWord]

Some people like there sin...let them enjoy it...didnt the bible say in the last day people will be drinking and MARRYING Lol.

[richard.a]

Heh, TransformingWord", indeed it does. And the connection with Sodom and Gomorrah is also made.

While it is just fiction, albeit well-written fiction, Jerry Jenkins describes scenes like that in several of the nail biting novels he wrote in the "Left Behind" series. I do like his style, and it's easy to see why on many other occasions he has collected the New York Times "best-seller" award.
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[Yagudin]

[anthony]

I guess the test will come :(certainly for preachers) is on that day when they have their fingerprints taken and the dna swab goes in the mouth..."who was listening to that word we felt the Lord had given us for the people"?Just yesterday.
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Remain a blessing dear ones .tony

[showlove]

[Chloe]

Cly .....

I just want to say this to you. I don't agree with homosexuality at all.

I believe its something that demonic angels get people convinced that its ok or even normal.

God did not create Adam and Steve. He created Adam and Eve.

That lifestyle is a perversion of what God intended and Satan likes to take the things of God and imitate or pervert it.

I say this to you that Jesus died for even that sin. He did because He does not want you or anyone to perish in hell for eternity. He loves you.

I pray that you really seek out Jesus and ask Him to deliver you from this and set you free. If you really give Jesus a chance, I believe He will show you. Then you must repent and never return to this sin again.

That is my prayer for you.

Chloe
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"And so All Israel Will be Saved."
Romans 11:26

[Shalomit]

Does anyone here STRUGGLE with being a decent person from day to day? Because I do. I wish I had more love in my heart because frequently I feel like CHOKING people who tick me off. My heart is tiny and the love that I should like to receive from God would probably burst its cankered little walnut of a state. Am I the only wretched person in all of Christendom that has difficulty with being patient, with being compassionate? I am probably the world’s biggest loser, and maybe the Kingdom of God’s as well.

I go to church and see all kinds of foolishness. They expect us to put on a show of goodness, yet I see that when it benefits the church a great deal of shadiness will be tolerated. I think the church needs to let people be where they are at – not for any advantages that it gains from using people with certain talents either. The church shouldn’t pretend that it’s so HOLY either on the one hand, while on the other it makes EXCUSES for greedy thieves, perverts, and pedophiles, etc.

I see sin galore in the church but I don’t get crazy about it. I figure that it’s better for a sinner to be in church and hopefully encounter God so he or she can mend his or her ways. I’m not saying that the church shouldn’t preach against inappropriate lifestyles or sin, but AT LEAST be CONSISTENT. Example – if a person is “living in sin,” (fornicating with some guy/girl that she or he is not married to) does that person REALLY need to teach a Bible study? Is that not asinine? Yet you’ll see that kind of thing accepted in a lot of churches.

I have NO PROBLEM with sinners being in the Church – we are all sinners and we all need to STOP FAKING IT and just be there and be square (be humble and ask for help). But should the church use people in positions of leadership or authority if their lives are all messed up? Probably not a great idea. Yet sometimes certain types of sin are more “accepted” than others. I think this is hypocritical.

Personally, I do not care if gays and lesbians are in the church with me. They are people who like all people need to know Jesus Christ. They aren’t any different than the rest of us who struggle with having too little patience, too little mercy, too little love, too much hypocrisy, etc. I mean, the church is full of honking fat obese people, but you sure as heck never hear hardly a PEEP about the sin of gluttony. However, you ALWAYS hear people harping about homosexuality. Maybe if the church were consistently tolerant and even loving of ALL sinful people without exception then more would be accomplished. And at least be FAIR and give equal time in sermons to all the different types of sin instead of singling out one kind and making it the horrible, abominable sin thus creating classes and hierarchy within the ranks of the sinners in the Body of Christ.

I don’t know why the church has this fixation with homosexuals. They totally don’t bother me. Let them worship and learn, and God will do the rest. Is every sinner going to be saved? I wish it were so but it won’t happen. Sin is sin no matter what shape, size, or form. I’m not saying it should be in the pulpit (but God Almighty the pulpit is full of it anyway and what an embarrassment that is to me), but if it’s in the congregation we shouldn’t be freaked out about it. Sinners should go to church just like sick people should go to the doctor.

Church – treat all sin the same. It’s RIDICULOUS that people are freaked out about gays and lesbians but tolerate all manner of other things with grace and ease. People should be taught that all sin is wrong because God SAID SO. But they also should be taught about the love of Christ in an environment where they don’t feel like they have to fake goodness in order to avoid people’s judgmental glares and ostracizing techniques. Should we withhold love from the unlovely? Face it, we are ALL unlovely in one way or another. Adam’s mark, the blemish of the Fall is ALWAYS ugly no matter how it may manifest, but all people should be free to find God and healing at their own pace without fear of love and fellowship being withheld when they stumble.

Does this mean I condone sin? BY NO MEANS. However, I sure as hell (yes I said “hell”) am not going to say that one kind leper is better than another kind of leper. Leprosy is leprosy – not a fun condition to be in, yet the condition of all of our souls as a result of sin. I’ll speak out against all forms of sin, but that isn’t going to stop me from visiting the leper colonies and giving any leper in need of love a hug. We are all in the same boat without Christ. I don’t target any group as being especially heinous or even especially deserving (of Christ’s love). We all NEED Jesus Christ. We need to know Him deeply and intimately. Once His love, His wisdom, His truth percolates down through the miry clay of our flesh and permeates our spirits, all the foolishness that is our poor choices as a result of bondage will begin to be broken off of us.

[richard.a]

Hello Shalomit, and welcome here.

Perhaps we should take each paragraph of yours at a time, and split it up, answering in the body. There is a lot of truth there, but some needs rearranging slightly. perhaps...

[Lucy W. Roberts]