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showlove
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 403
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 Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Lucy W. Roberts wrote: | It's
preposterous to assert that churches preach to hate certain groups.
It's too much hollywood dramatization and dichotomization of certain
groups...media drives way too much of our interpretations! We let media
grasp our attention rather than focus on Jesus.
Aren't you tired of media "driving" people and programming us to
see things "their" way? In the same way, political activists like Cly
and certain newsgroups develop a "platform" on something considered
divisive or unfair and milk it for all it's worth when the extremes of
the position aren't even truly that extreme. In other words...to be
blunt...some redneck kids born to racist dads who don't even go to
church beat up a gay person and it's somehow the church's fault? Or a
religious-spirited person says hateful things, and the entire church is
held responsible...Uh-uh! These are acts Jesus spoke against! We need
to bring the focus where the focus belongs...on Jesus our Savior who
delivers us from divisive, hateful, carnal sensuality of "team"
mentality. He calls us to look at one another and lost souls
"differently." We are to see the Body of Christ as "one" and lost souls
as potentially His sheep, period. "For your Father in heaven is not willing that any one of these little ones should perish." Jesus Christ |
Amen Lucy! |
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TransformingWord
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 236
Location: The Ministry Center of New York
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Lucy
get out my puplit preaching like that you ....my my my my my like the
old pentecostals used to say you dont went up in the kitchen. Amen amen. |
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richard.a
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Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Lucy what you wrote here is so true...
| showlove wrote: | | Lucy W. Roberts wrote: | |
Aren't you tired of media "driving" people and programming us to see
things "their" way? In the same way, political activists like Cly and
certain newsgroups develop a "platform" on something considered
divisive or unfair and milk it for all it's worth when the extremes of
the position aren't even truly that extreme. In other words...to be
blunt...some redneck kids born to racist dads who don't even go to
church beat up a gay person and it's somehow the church's fault? |
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I'm reminded of the 1998 murder of Matthew Shepard in Laramie (Wyoming)
which was allegedly committed by two such "local youths".
In the end, it was finally discovered, a long time after the two
youths both received 2 consecutive terms of life sentences, that the
murder wasn't a "hate fags" type situation.
No, not at all.
The murderers - or strictly speaking the murderer and his
accomplice, were actually after money and drugs, and had been drinking
immediately before the murder, all three of them together.
The murdered fellow was a homosexual, as was certainly one of the
two charged and found guilty, and maybe so was the second. In fact they
had had sex together.
Yet this sad story is STILL
maintained by those who wish to foment the "hate straights,
particularly Christian straights" mentality as a hate crime against
homosexuals - because the fellow killed and robbed was a homosexual who dressed nicely.
I have a report online, saved from the ABC network's News files, dated 2004 and entitled New Details Emerge in Matthew Shepard Murder. It is saved in print format - free of advertising, and on one html page for easier reading. You can find it here.
Come on folks. Let's get off this treadmill of accusations and just
wake up to the fact that this is a fallen world, which will not get
better - because God said it won't... and there is every indication
looking around that God was right too!
The ultimate in depravity is yet to come, I'm sure. And I'm afraid that
it will be no consolation to be able to say "I told you so" to anyone.
Richard in Adelaide
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Lucy W. Roberts
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Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 918
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| TransformingWord wrote: | | Lucy
get out my puplit preaching like that you ....my my my my my like the
old pentecostals used to say you dont went up in the kitchen. Amen amen. |
Dude, I can't say it like you just said it! 
_________________
If God is for us who can be against us?
Make the Lord your trust and He will do this...He will make your
righteousness shine like the dawn; the justice of your cause like the
noonday sun!
No weapon formed against us shall prosper. |
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Nikos
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Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 680
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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Lucy W. Roberts
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Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 918
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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And Blessings to you! God Bless Nikos and make Him twice the Son of God he already is! Amen.
_________________
If God is for us who can be against us?
Make the Lord your trust and He will do this...He will make your
righteousness shine like the dawn; the justice of your cause like the
noonday sun!
No weapon formed against us shall prosper.
Last edited by Lucy W. Roberts on Wed May 16, 2007 9:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Shalomit
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Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 76
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Lucy - I've seen every crazy thing you can imagine in churches - I won't bore you with the details.
Showlove - I appreciate your comments, but from what I understand
in the Bible we are born in sin and if we do not repent and receive
Christ we die in sin and go to hell regardless of what kinds of sin we
did or did not commit. A "white lie" will send you there just as fast
as sexual perversion. That's because "the wages of sin is DEATH." There
isn't a sin hierarchy it's just death - that is separation from God in
this life and then hell in the next. As they say in Arabic "Kulu wahed"
(It is all one).
16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. - Proverbs 6:16-19.
Of the six things that the LORD hates, the seventh being an
abomination, homosexuality doesn't even make the list. I understand
that those who are militant are trying to change what people believe
about the Scriptures, but I'm not concerned about that ever happening.
If the government started putting people in prison over religious
beliefs then it would be a violation of the Constitution. It would also
serve to make true believers more adamant about standing up for the
truth, which in my opinion is the best thing that could happen to the
church in this country. Even so, we should still love ALL people and
not differentiate between one sin and another. Jesus said that in the
end God would have more tolerance for Sodom and Gomorrah than He would
have for the lukewarm pharisees who wasted their time quibbling over
gnats in their wine glasses. |
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Lucy W. Roberts
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Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 918
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Shalomit wrote: | 16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. - Proverbs 6:16-19. |
This Scripture quote always grabs my heart. Thanks, Shalomit.
But, I do differ a bit. You know, everyone is not equal...we are not
all born equal. Some of us are taller, some smarter, some with better
teeth, some in better socioeconomic circumstances. In the same way,
just because America is a democracy doesn't in any way diminish the
power of God's Kingdom which is a theocracy! We may be "trained" to
think the majority rules, but it's not true at all in God's Kingdom.
God didn't give His okay for people to discuss whether or not His
instructions and actions are good. He differentiated the sin of
homosexuality as being abominable to Him by the act of raining fire
down on Sodom and Gomorrah...and instructing Abraham before this act
that if he taught his children to do right in this matter that all of
His promises to Abraham would remain true. And Abraham did so!
And Jesus did say to His disciples that if they were not received by a
certain city or town to shake the dust off of their shoes because it
would be "more tolerable" for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment
than for that city. This speaks against not receiving those God sends
to you with His Truth as being WORSE than that sin in God's eyes.
_________________
If God is for us who can be against us?
Make the Lord your trust and He will do this...He will make your
righteousness shine like the dawn; the justice of your cause like the
noonday sun!
No weapon formed against us shall prosper. |
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maz
1,000 Posts Club
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 1425
Location: U.K.
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 4:22 am Post subject: |
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it's wonderful to see the unity on here. Discussions about deeper subjects can be peaceful. God bless you all. You are encouraging each other and pointing out the good things about each other's posts. It's been great reading. Thankyou.
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Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore.
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TransformingWord
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 236
Location: The Ministry Center of New York
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| LUCY WAS ON POINT...THAT ITS AND THATS ALL. |
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richard.a
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Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| maz wrote: | | it's wonderful to see the unity on here. Discussions about deeper subjects can be peaceful. God bless you all. You are encouraging each other and pointing out the good things about each other's posts. It's been great reading. Thankyou. |
Thank you maz; many people (not just those who don't accept God but
some Christians also) fail to understand that that particular sort of
unity is not being clones of each other, rubber stamping everything.
As Lucy said, each of us is different. We need remember that each of us
is uniquely created in the image of Almighty God, and He has entrusted
each of us who accept Him (without argument) with the ability to sift
the sinful surroundings in which we live on a temporary basis, because
our home is with Him.
Being different, each of us can see slightly different slants, of
perspective, on situations, and it is the Holy Spirit to whom we ought
listen for our understanding of God's purposes for and within each of
us, and those around us. This also allows us to complement each other
in answering those asking questions. You know God's purpose is a
marvellous thing, a mystery, a wonder far greater than any humanly
constructed edifice.
I too thank all of you for that unity, and can remember the words of a worship song from many years ago, We are one in the bond of love. I praise God that we are, dear friends.
Richard
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showlove
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 403
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Shalomit wrote: | | Lucy - I've seen every crazy thing you can imagine in churches - I won't bore you with the details. |
Same here Shalomit. I can truly say that if it had not been for the Lord I would have lost faith!
| Quote: | | Showlove
- I appreciate your comments, but from what I understand in the Bible
we are born in sin and if we do not repent and receive Christ we die in
sin and go to hell regardless of what kinds of sin we did or did not
commit. A "white lie" will send you there just as fast as sexual
perversion. That's because "the wages of sin is DEATH." There isn't a
sin hierarchy it's just death - that is separation from God in this
life and then hell in the next. As they say in Arabic "Kulu washed" (It
is all one). |
I disagree. A "white" lie will not send you to hell anymore than it sent Rahab. There is no scriptural evidence of that at all.
Do not confuse the so called 'sin nature' that we are born with and
without choice with our own responsibility for our individual sins and
choices.
We do know based on what God says in the OT that all sins were not
dealt with in the same manner. There were differing offerings for
differing transgressions. There were wave offerings, peace offerings,
banishment outside the camp for a period of time, etc etc.
One example, if a person accidentally killed someone he or she could
flee to a city of refuge to avoid retribution from the deceased family.
However if a person committed premeditated murder there was no such
caveat. The punishment was death period.
I am no expert on the subject but there is further evidence that all
sin is not weighed the same. There are the several biblical references
to our sins AND transgressions that would indicate that there is indeed a difference.
Jos 24:19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD:
for he [is] an holy God; he [is] a jealous God; he will not forgive
your transgressions nor your sins.
Isa 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
Eze 33:10 Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel;
Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins [be] upon us,
and we pine away in them, how should we then live?
There are many, many more.
Then there are sins unto death. The degree of punishment would indicate the depth of the transgression in the sight of God.
Lest you think that the death penalty sins are limited to the OT. We
find in the NT scriptures that also make the same delineation,
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to
obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness?
1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto
death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not
unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray
for it.
1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Homosexuality, bestially and adultery top the list of death penalty sin. Which leads me to your next statement.
| Quote: | 16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. - Proverbs 6:16-19.
Of the six things that the LORD hates, the seventh being an abomination, homosexuality doesn't even make the list. |
Not so.
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman,
both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to
death; their blood shall be upon them.
God has not changed.
| Quote: | |
I understand that those who are militant are trying to change what
people believe about the Scriptures, but I'm not concerned about that
ever happening. |
All I can say to that is  .
I guess you missed the newsflash!
| Quote: | | If the government started putting people in prison over religious beliefs then it would be a violation of the Constitution. |
Again
. You are aware that gays are trying to make it illegal to so much as
voice the belief that homosexuality is sin aren't you? You did read the
topic starter I hope? If you still don't believe it then please tell us
what you think the meaning of this is. Even if people were not jailed
homosexuals could tie a person, church or business up in endless
litigation based on a VERY loose interpretation of what a "hate crime"
is.
| Quote: | |
It would also serve to make true believers more adamant about standing
up for the truth, which in my opinion is the best thing that could
happen to the church in this country. |
I hate to state the obvious, but that is EXACTLY what we are doing both here and elsewhere.
You seemed to take exception to that in your post. I could be wrong about that though.
Nevertheless it seems to me that, despite the fact that you may not
feel called to come against the gay agenda, you would applaud those who
might be.
| Quote: | |
Even so, we should still love ALL people and not differentiate between
one sin and another. Jesus said that in the end God would have more
tolerance for Sodom and Gomorrah than He would have for the lukewarm
Pharisees who wasted their time quibbling over gnats in their wine
glasses. |
Another misinterpretation of scripture and evidence of really bad teaching.
Apparently the pre-incarnate Jesus did not think it a gnat when He destroyed these cities that promoted this most egregious sin.
I have the capacity to love without sticking my head in the sand of political correctness.
Jesus did no less. |
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anthony
Active Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 994
Location: u.k
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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You do well, good post.
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Remain a blessing dear ones .tony |
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Lucy W. Roberts
Active Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 918
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| maz wrote: | | it's wonderful to see the unity on here. Discussions about deeper subjects can be peaceful. God bless you all. You are encouraging each other and pointing out the good things about each other's posts. It's been great reading. Thankyou. |
Yes, thank you Maz for your constant encouragement!
_________________
If God is for us who can be against us?
Make the Lord your trust and He will do this...He will make your
righteousness shine like the dawn; the justice of your cause like the
noonday sun!
No weapon formed against us shall prosper. |
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richard.a
Active Member
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:00 am Post subject: |
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I would like to share some thoughts penned by 87yo retired pastor Joe McKnight of Seattle, not that anyone can actually "retire" from God's work.
It is part of a completed series he wrote on "Revival in the Church",
and its need to happen, and the expectation we should have that it will
happen as part of the end-times story, although we are still waiting
for the big one.
I felt this might indicate to us how the Almighty expects us to
react, think, behave, and share with one another during this portion of
the end-times, leading up to the tribulation.
In case there's any doubt, Brother McKnight has been a mentor of mine (from several thousand miles away) for a number of years.
He has written a number of such series, to which I add his updates, day after day, and they are accessible at http://www.eagles-lair.org/pdfs under his name and location.
| Quote: | REVIVAL. 5
A TURNING POINT.
The voice of the Lord as heard in Jeremiah issued a call for the
people to turn to the Lord, with their whole heart. Any revival, any
move of the Lord requires those who seek Him diligently and with all
their soul and spirit. Those who turn to the Lord in heart felt prayer
have the assurance that He will hear them. When they seek after Him
they will find Him. Again, His response is in accordance with the
sincerity and whole heartedness with which He is sought. Jer. 29:12-13
Travailing prayer is necessary for any revival to take place.
THREE SIGNS OF A SINCERE HEART. Joel 2:12
FASTING. Certainly not always
the most pleasant exercise in seeking the Lord. Even so, it
demonstrates a greater hunger for the things of the Spirit than those
of the flesh. It brings into subjection the natural nature and desires
of man to the will and purpose of the Lord. It is a humbling of the old
man, the carnal nature. The spiritual benefits far outweigh any anguish
that may be encountered. 2 Chr. 20:3-4
WEEPING. The Lord has said that
a broken and contrite heart He will not despise. The scripture
specifically designates that the priests and ministers of the Lord weep
between the porch and the altar. Joel 2:17 Weeping in prayer indicates
a burden and love for the lost. It is not a case of personal sorrow but
a cry for the salvation of those who are unsaved. Like those who go
forth weeping and sowing, the end result will be rejoicing. Ps. 126:6
To be able to weep before the Lord in prayer is one of the most blessed
spiritual experiences. Jesus stood and wept over the city of Jerusalem.
He knew that the time of their visitation by the Lord was drawing to a
close and that judgment was to follow. Mat. 23:37
MOURNING.
Again, not a spiritual work that is because of some sadness or
sorrow that is personal. However, knowing the times and the seasons, we
enter into a burden in prayer for those who are lost now and soon to be
eternally lost, except they repent. It is strong prayer And could
easily culminate in a travail in prayer. Certainly the most awesome of
prayers and unfortunately frequently misunderstood by church
leadership. It is scriptural and will be come more and more evident as
we approach the end of the age. Paul spoke of it as a prayer motivated
by the spirit. Rom. 8:26 |
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